High Intensity Flyers: Too Much?
It’s been a few days, and I’m sure everybody has seen the flyers posted all around campus, with big, angry letters spelling out RAPE. The flyer goes on to inform the reader that to explain how the unnamed group is “tired of it” and calls out guys in general to respect “NO means NO.”
Don’t get me wrong, as somebody who personally knows several rape victims, I don’t think there’s too many more important topics to cover on a college campus. But I can’t help but feel like these flyers took all the wrong paths towards talking about it. When I’m walking to class (or anywhere in the general vicinity of the library, which got plastered with these things), I feel almost threatened by these angry-at-the-world flyers, posted EVERYWHERE. I’m also rather offended that the flyer directly calls out “GUYS, it’s your responsibility…” but has no mention of the responsibility of a woman to protect herself, be aware of her surroundings, etc.
Tell me, UU readers, what do you think about these flyers?
Filed under: Campus life | Tagged: Daedalus
Serious question: when’s the last time that this been a rape on campus at UMBC? Except for the murder that happened off-campus committed by UMBC student in what, 2005, when has a UMBC student been implicated in a crime that severe at all? If the incidence of this phenomenon is nil for all intents and purposes, what purpose do these flyers serve? Do we really have a forced-sex epidemic at UMBC that needs to be addressed through flyers? If you’re the kind of guy who’s going to commit an act of forced sex anyway, is a flyer you saw around campus going to enter into your mind in the heat of the moment?
Please don’t flame me here, I’m not trying to provoke anyone or just be a bastard. But those are the thoughts that pass through my head whenever I see the flyers. Thoughts anyone?
PS: I’m not trying to act like I have all the answers either. I honestly don’t know if there are any other effective strategies besides flyers. But I really have to question whether loud, frightening flyers that use what could charitably be described as scare tactics will achieve any goals its set out.
Although I agree that the one-sided standpoint of the flyer could have been presented better, it still brings up a good point? Do you see a similar number of women raping men? For the most part this issue begins and ends with the men, although truth is approaching the problem exclusively from that angle just isn’t going to work. Like you say, women need to be aware of what they to do in a bad situation.
Ironically,the flyer almost seems to be dehumanizing women by calling them helpless. As if to say they are helpless to do anything about the problem by shouldering all responsibility on the guys.
JW,
Incidence has nothing to do with the number of men (or women) reported to the police. Rape is one of the most underreported crimes out there. That’s part of the problem itself. For every reported rape, what are there, 9 more that go unreported? No one can know for sure, but we do need to let women know their rights to come forward (I’m speaking as a woman).
No comment on the flyers, though. But please think twice before saying that incidence is “nil.”
I think Sonic has a very good point - although, I agree with SS about incidence being inaccurate and having little to do with the subject.
I do think the flyers are a little self-defeating and they are not giving women enough credit by calling women helpless. I think in some cases (not all) women have more power than they would be led to believe.
I definitely support women in the cause though. I think men do not do enough to stop rape. Joking about it makes it a light subject and belittles the situation. For instance, “I’m gonna rape you in beer pong, bro!”
This is a very controversial subject and I think some enlightening points will surface.
I live off- campus now, and I have not seen these posters. It seems to me, based on the description, that they are a bit much. As a sexual- assault survivor, I would find something as explicit as what was described to be triggering and a bit offensive, so I’m not entirely sure what the point is. Deterrent? Maybe putting up big “MURDER” and “CRACK” signs all over the city will take care of their issues. Doubtful.
The point is this, UMBC doesn’t need to have Ted Bundy. Just because there aren’t bloodied and bruised half- naked co-eds running around crying “rape” doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Guys ON OUR CAMPUS are taking advantage of girls IN OUR DORMS. Place that blame wherever you want. Is it smart for an 18- year old girl to invite some stranger back to her room after binge- drinking at Fishbowl? Absolutely not. Does that 22- year old stranger “deserve” to get laid because he pumped her full of alcohol all night? Not really.
You could say it goes with the territory… college life and one- night stands that you don’t remember. But just because it happens doesn’t mean it should. And just because it isn’t reported doesn’t mean it isn’t a crime. Just remember, not all rapists wear ski masks– some wear polos.
Why would the flyers advocate that a woman be aware of her surroundings or protect herself? I mean, yes, both of those are important in reducing risk, but if a woman is not aware or does not protect herself, is she at fault somehow? I hope the answer is no.
I’m not gonna lie, those posters kinda pissed me off. I’m not saying rape isn’t a problem or should be swept under a rug and ignored, but there has got to be a better way than making blanket statements like the ones on those fliers.
Personally, although I find the fliers slightly excessive, they really crossed the line for me the other day when I saw that someone had posted a flier on the back of someone’s car! If this was someone’s idea of a joke, it wasn’t funny and if the person was trying to point out a rapist, that’s REALLY not the way to go about it.
Either way, I thought it was in poor taste all around. Rape is a problem on every campus (although we do rarely hear about it) and I seriously doubt these fliers are the right way to bring attention to such a serious issue.
I saw these posters around campus and they did their job–they caught my attention, and one day I had a minute and stopped to read one. As a female, I appreciate the efforts of whoever was behind the fliers to draw attention to a severely unnoticed and underreported problem. While rape is not necessarily an “epidemic” in that it is happening constantly with very little way to control it, it is a problem, and like others have pointed out, it often is kept quiet for various reasons. That’s slightly beside the point. Anyhow, yes the blame is primarily (not totally) on guys because for the most part they are the ones causing the problems. However, we as women do have a part to play. We should be aware of our surroundings and be smart about things like going out alone at night. While it is not “our fault” per se if we happen to be attacked, date raped, etc., if we wander down a dark alley at midnite (an exaggeration I know) then yes we are partially to blame. We’re not helpless, we can take steps to protect ourselves. For me this means
Getting back to the issue at hand, the fliers, while I support the effort to draw attention to the issue, anonymous fliers aren’t really that effective. It’d be one thing if they were advertising or promoting an informational session or something of the sort. If all they’re doing is anonymously calling out guys to stop doing this, that’s all good and well but it’s not really going to have that much effect. There are posters in the residence halls that advocate consensual sex with pretty pictures and cute happy couples. Once again, that’s all good and well, but someone who is in the state of mind to
I think this discussion will do a much better job of getting the subject out in the open than the flyers would have, but would this discussion have started without the flyers? However you feel about it, I’d say they accomplished what they wanted to.
Good points by everyone, especially SS, Josh, and Kindergarten. I especially like what Kindergarten has ro say - putting up a sign doesn’t magically make it stop, but there is something to say about drawing attention to an issue.
Consensus here seems to be that they would be more effective if a) it wasn’t so saturation-bombing of the campus, b) less anonymity, more follow-up measures, and c) perhaps focused more directly on the problem of underreported rape. A line about the fact that it’s swept under the table and/or underreported and/or “just because you don’t hear about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening” would have done wonders to silence big bad ignorant critics like myself.
dang it I wasn’t done…rotten keyboard
continuation of the first paragraph…
For me, taking steps to protect myself means the occasional self defense class, taking my phone with me wherever I go, not going out alone at night (although I do wander around campus at obscene hours), and staying alert and aware to what/who is around me. (I also tend to carry a knife, but that’s not everyone’s preference).
Continuation of second paragraph…
Someone who is in the frame of mind to rape someone or (as they themselves may view it) ignore the wishes of the other person is not going to take a poster/flier into consideration, especially if the victim is not actively resisting (inebriated, etc). It’s useless to list all the possible situations and conditions that might occur. I appreciate the efforts of whoever was behind the posters to draw more attention to the issue, but after a while, they become simply part of the landscape, people don’t see them anymore, and anonymous fliers/posters really can’t have the effect they are designed to have.
I personally rape my pillow every night, and now thanks to these flyers my pillow realized it has rights and is thinking about reporting me.
Thanks unknown UMBC group for posting the flyers.
Pro tip: Carrying a weapon into a potential battle without proper training on how to use said weapon is effectively walking into a battle and handing the enemy that weapon. You are better off with your fists and feet….or running better yet.
…and knowing is half the battle
G.I. JOE!
The message on the fliers is a good one, but the way they went about it was flat wrong. The posters are really, really annoying in that they’re on all the poles you’re not allowed to put things on. They didn’t even put them on the posting boards, and they put them on the lecture hall 1 movie sign where they definitely don’t belong.
Vanessa managed to say what I was too tounge-tied to come up with originally:
I think the flyers are in rather bad taste.
The issue is definitely important, and Josh made the intriguing point that regardless of the implementation, this brings the matter into the forefront for discussion.
I love tits.
I participated in organizing this action and it is very interesting to read the responses posted in this thread on the issue of our fliers.
That said, I thought I would answer some questions on the issue of why fliers when up at all. The point of the action was to start a discourse about an issue that has been continuously silenced across campuses, not just ours. And, negative or not, looks like it worked.
But speaking of our campus, if you responders care to do some research UMBC’s history on the issue you will find that it violently shuts down any efforts to place sex educational forums or talks in orientation to incoming freshman on the dangers of rape in college. Not to mention there have been many reports of sexual assault that have been handled poorly. And to top it off, has everyone forgotten that nasty little incident that happened a little while ago with former UMBC student John Gaumer right on our neighboring highways?
Also, if you take the time to look into current rape prevention campaigns and “tips” and whatnot most of it is geared towards women and declares it their personal responsibility to prevent rape from happening to them; almost completely taking out the attacker from the equation.
And also, just a little piece of mind to leave you with, when we flyered, we did not see ANY police patrols for the hour and a half we were out there though we did see our share of staggering students crossing the campus. Thats a long span of time to leave the campus unguarded in the middle of the night.
Your response, as well as your peers is being taken into account and the next action will try to be a bit more overall informative and not so elusive.
@Flyer-ee
1) UMBC “violently shuts down any efforts”? That sounds like a hyperbolic, alarmist way of saying “they didn’t like our idea! those bastards!”
2) I mentioned Gaumer (not by name) in my post, the very first one). My point was of him as an exception that only reinforced the point that a) this phenomenon is probably rare to the point of being nil (a debatable notion, but regardless) and b) someone like Gaumer would probably be only provoked more by flyers around campus.
3) Can you address the issue of how you expect this to impact a potential rapist that would make it less likely? Has anyone not heard “no means no” by now? How is reinforcing a point that elementary going to do anything? I’m not trying to be completely critical or disparaging here, just slightly skeptical/cynical, that’s all.
4) “Not to mention there have been many reports of sexual assault that have been handled poorly.” I’m a senior, and that’s the first I’ve heard of that. Care to explain?
@Larry,
Dude, you’re sort of undercutting my points here. Lay low, alright?
@JW
response to 1) are educational efforts ever a bad idea? Especially on an issue that happens as often as it does and yet is so taboo? knowledge is power, and informing people gives them that knowledge to use.
2.) Gaumer is only one example and an extreme case at that. But rape mostly happens on a personal level with close acquaintances. If it happens at all it is still too often hence the need to make it a public issue. Someone like Gaumer will do what he does regardless of what we flier. People like him, serial rapists are not the minority and therefore not the general population we are trying to reach.
3.) If rape still happens, which it does, then this issue is still important to address. And the issue of “no means no” is actually a big one because of the debate of what situation it applies too. And if people joke about it then it certainly isn’t being addressed with the level of seriousness that it deserves. Just because you have heard about it or believe it is serious doesn’t mean everybody does. And if you are one of those people who take it seriously then the fliers were put out to get you thinking on acting if you see a friend being harassed to step in and say something. It’s applicable on so many levels.
4.) If you really want to know about those reports talk to UMBC police, check their reports, talk to professors and students. Out of respect for the privacy of those involved I’m not giving names. My group and I had to pry kind of hard to get to it though. :/
Anyway, I have to say; why argue it in such the negative, can;t you think of the positive it has done? Walking around campus the day after flyering I heard so many positive conversations about the issue. It’s interesting that when something different then normal occurs on campus the first thing to be posted about it always seems to be more negative criticism then constructive.
when I was a freshman there was a rape prevention thing. kind of a play or something, I thought it was dumb.
It’s my understanding that most rape is committed by friends and/or acquaintances of the victim. Police patrols won’t, therefore, prevent very many rapes.
The kind of rape that does happen happens in the context of a hook up culture.
For your consideration:
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0916morse.html
My summary: If rape matters it’s because sex matters. A school that tells people sex is great for any occasion but rape is bad is doing half the job. If the school wants to say rape is bad the school should also say sex is special, to be reserved, guarded, and protected.
My two cents.
@Flyer-ee!
I can definitely see UMBC shying away from a rape-awareness program as a right-away proposal, for the simple reason that the administration might fear that this sends a message that this school is not safe, you’re going to get assaulted here, etc.
But there are plenty of opportunities during the orientation period (the block party in particular comes to mind for whatever reason) for a resourceful group of students to spread the word, so to speak.
Thanks for chiming in on the discussion, by the way. It’s illuminating to discuss this matter from all angles as we are now.
I personally felt that the fliers expressed something important that we rarely talk about. A rapist is responsible for rape, not a woman. I think that we often talk about what a woman is supposed to do to prevent rape or sexual violence, when instead we should be talking about why these things occur and how we can convince people that rape is never acceptable.
Rape is a serious problem that DOES occur on this campus.
I agree that I am made very uncomfortable by the aggressive nature of the postings on campus, however it is necessary to bring up a dialogue on this issue. And it is important for potential rapists to realize that these acts are in fact rape, when something is covered up and ignored the perpetrator believes that it is ok to continue. Another thought however is how we respond to cries of rape, as a campus community we should be open to non-threatening discussion. We should take responsibility for both our own safety and the safety of our friends and fellow students and not allow a hidden crime to continue. There is so much we can do to protect each other, to help each other make the correct decisions.
So apparently men don’t rape each other. Just a thought.
@ PDubs.
It does, and women rape women too.
Unfortunately it’s been very difficult to find statistical documentation on instances of male rape victims and rape in the gay community. However, the follow-up action will have information regarding that topic as well. Fliers are so small, but this next thing will be much more extensive. if you do find any information of the subject please post it on here! It would be greatly appreciated.
I have to say that walking around campus with all these signs that say “RAPE” staring me in the face is a bit uncomfortable, but that’s only uncomfortable because I’m not used to seeing the issue brought to the forefront so forcefully. It seems that it’s exactly that which the posters were looking to change, and so they’ve accomplished what they were looking to do.
Will the posters actually stop a potential rapist? Probably not, but they could potentially encourage someone who knows a victim (or maybe a victim herself) to get help, or maybe to discourage a guy who is acting inappropriately.
@JW, I don’t think anyone’s trying to call you a big bad nasty critic, it’s just that rape is most likely the most underreported crime there is due to the social stigma that comes with it. Therefore, I feel that it’s a bit much to say that instances of rape are close to nil on this campus, or really anywhere.
@PDubs, yes, men do rape each other, but I suppose that wasn’t the target issue for these posters. They never said that men don’t rape each other, and if you really want to, you can stick posters with info about male-on-male rape all over campus. I think that issue could use some discussion, too.
Women have a responsibility to protect themselves up to a point, but I’d like to point out that no woman deserves to be raped, even if she’s wearing a miniskirt and alone at night. Some rape victims dress conservatively and go out in groups and get raped anyway, so the responsibility really does lie with the man.
being the guy who puts a cig in Walter Sondheim’s hand whenever I pass by at night, I thought the flyers were fuckin awesome. It was hilarious to see hundreds of flyers labeled “RAPE” all over the Library and pup. good show!
@ Flyer-ee
idk whether or not you did it as a joke, education, or something inbetween but stuff like that is awesome. Keep up the good work and I encourage more students to do similar things to get their own points across
@why
educational, but glad to see you support free speech on campus!
I think the bigger picture needs to be looked and whoever posted these flyers needs to realize that rape is not just limited to an act of a man enforcing his will on a woman. This flyer targets a specific group of individuals and does not take into account all genders and life style choices on this campus (which there is a wide variety). I understand what the flyer was trying to get across but truthfully failed when whoever created them chose to target a smaller audience, instead of the entire campus population. Rape can be any gender forcing their will on any other gender and this does happen, and it is a legitimate concern. If you are going to make a flyer that is this loud and obvious at least take the extra couple of steps and create something which informs everyone to stay safe.
@Blink
I agree with you completely on the issue but for the fliers we did choose a more narrow approach simply for text sake. “friend” isn’t gendered however, and in limiting the text there will still be a discourse generated from people such as yourself about the bigger issue not limiting itself to gender norms. And in you doing so, the issue will be brought up and discussed which is the general overall goal. So keep it up, you aren’t the first I’ve heard and as I stated before,if you do find any statistical information concerning said issue please post it here! We could use it for our second action!
@ blink
the legal definition of “rape” only applies to men. Its defined by insertion
Hey, just chiming in with some points. Incidence of male perpetrators vs female perpetrators would be a really misguided metric to use due to an even greater under-reporting of rapes against men than with women.
@clark - Thats a bit of a convoluted argument which, im guessing, came from marrying two of your own positions. While I by no means strike to impugn the reputation of “ifeminists.com”…oh I can’t even joke about it anymore, quote a study if you think you’re on to something but otherwise its all just trite.
There was this notion proposed above that they needed to elevate the level of discourse through shock-and-awe methodologies because it was somehow being ignored. And then not but 2 sentences later, the talk was all about community building as the solution to this problem and others like it. I completely agree with the latter, but by posting shocking posters to “elevate the discourse”, you’re segmenting communities, not building them. You’re saying “You’re going to listen when we tell you this is an issue, and if not, we’re gonna pick out some even more SHOCKING colors next time!” Come on. Its time to cut the gimmicky crap out, its not “inventive”, or “original”, its just plain immature.
But yeah, you do make a great point. Why don’t we start building a close community at UMBC. Why don’t we encourage real discourse on the subject, instead of flashy displays of emptiness. I’m not even sure how you’d get that started because a lot of it simply has to do with people being very isolated. But I know throwing up a bunch of ridiculous, “edgy” fliers is going to inspire more sighs and groans about what a ridiculous school UMBC is before it ever inspires anything even resembling an active, impassioned community.
@ Daedalus
I’ve heard there are a few different groups on campus who are working on plans to do some other less than official university programming at orientation on this matter. There are a lot of ideas about how to address the very real concerns about sexual assault, and provide some positive responsible guidance to new students. I hope those groups are aware of the ideas that are flying around here.
—-
So many sexual assault prevention campaigns focus on things that seem trivial in the long run, like holding your keys in your hand when you walk to your car. Like that would really make a difference.
I think there is a lot of confusion about what actually constitutes rape. When is consent really clear? When is someone (male female or trans) able or unable to give consent? How is someone else supposed to tell? What does it mean to be wrong about these things? Why are these distinctions important? What are the tangible consequences of rape/sexual assult? What about the more elusive personal consequences? Etc etc etc.
There is a lot more to consent and sex than no means no. These are things I think should be addressed early in college, because I bet there are a lot of people who don’t know how much “gray area” there is, and how dangerous it can be to have sex in that gray area. I think it is valuable for our campus community to get this stuff sorted out. It has a lot of value, I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who have had sex when they and their new partner were both pretty drunk. Is that rape? Who would be at fault? Knowing this may help a lot of people understand the consequences of their behavior.
Not knowing the answers to all these questions leaves you vulnerable, not just to rape, but to life long legal problems, psychological trauma and a host of other problems.
I don’t see how it would be bad for everyone to have some more clear information about this stuff. I think the flyers though inflammatory are certainly good for opening this discussion. On a side note, did anyone notice the t-shirts in the commons last week? Some of that was about rape too. How did that display compare to the flyers?
@flyer-ee!
Good job, I understand that this is a hard thing to get people talking about. Thanks for making it something we all have to at least think about. I hope this effort helps improve life on campus.
I think everyone has raised some valid points, and I agree with a number of them. I suppose that we should also take note that rape is usually NOT about sex. Rape is about power and control. And, when it comes to facts, there are more man to woman rapes. However, as a man, I did feel that these flyers were a bit much, I especially find it disturbing that because I have a penis, I am therefore responsible for rape.
Nonetheless, I think it is also important to realize that college students hook up and have one night stands, and it is the responsibility of both parties to know what is appropriate. A man should know that if she isn’t interested in having sex, he needs to accept it, and not force it. By the same token, a woman should know that if she is going out, she shouldn’t be paranoid, but she should be vigilant and aware. Don’t invite strange men home and if you put your drink down, keep an eye on it. Now, I am not saying that women are responsible for the act of rape, but in some cases, being aware of things can mitigate the chances.
One of the most important things I think that we can take away from this is that rape is not an easy subject to discuss, and that different people have different perspectives on how it is prevented.
As a guy, I know I have never committed rape and have a number of female friends that I keep an eye out for whenever we do go out to a club/bar/party/etc. Well I’m sure the number of men committing rape is much higher than the number of women as men are generally larger and stronger when compared to women, these flyers are an insult.
I have been through a number of rape awareness events and such for different campus organizations and other organizations I have been part of and the second they start blaming guys for the whole thing, I tune out. For me, considering I don’t plan on raping anyone anytime soon, it doesn’t matter but for the guy who really isn’t aware that getting a girl drunk to the point where she can’t say no is also rape, these types of things do the opposite of preventing rape. They desensitize many people.
Imagine if you saw a sign that says, armed robbery, it’s your “insert group here” fault.
sorry for the double post, but my point is if you want to reach out to men about rape, this is the wrong way to do it.
If you want some shock, how about posting this: (this is from one of the few videos on rape I’ve seen that actually is good)
Your girlfriend
Your sister
Your cousin
Your friends
1 out of 4 women is raped in their lifetimes
Now if I (or the average guy) saw that on a sign instead of hey you’re a guy stop raping women which is basically what the signs say, the average guy would actually read them and not just ignore them or be insulted by the sign.
anyone who thinks the flyers are an insult need to man up and accept responsibility to being a male and as much as i hate to say it, stop being a pussy
Rape prevention is an important issue as are general GWST things of the like. As a male, i fucking HATE guys who treat woman like shit. I can’t take that shit.
I also can’t take it when people get offended and insulted over trick shit like this. The flyers were no big deal. Men have a higher percentage of rape offenses than woman. Thus, its the guys responsibility to prevent rape from ever ever occurring. So don’t get all offended when people call out guys because its BOUND TO HAPPEN. I hate it when people get offended needlessly. People say shit, big fucking deal
stop being a pussy and deal
note: I hate calling people pussies and other degrading things because it perpetuates a masculine sterotype. That males have to be strong, and they can’t show emotion or be feminant and all that other GWST stuff. Its bad. People should be who they are not decided by society
nevertheless, my 1st comment stands. If you were offended by the signs, then man up and grow a pair. Shit happens and if every group keeps bitchin about being insulted instead of solving actual problems we would be in a world of shit
oh 1 more thing
@ Casey Miller
great point. I completely agree
fuck. 1 more thing
at the 8:15 anon
the posters did say things like that. “Imagine if it was your gf, friend, or sister” or something like that. The posters were legit in that respect.
@ Cigarettes
I’m not offended by the notion that my gender is “responsible” for rape. It’s common knowledge that men simply commit more rapes on the books.
What I AM offended by is the notion that only addressing the men constitutes an approach to the problem. I’m not implying (as some of you have) that women are responsible for being raped, but there’s two ways to go about working with any problem:
1) Solve the problem - engineer a fix and stop it from happening altogether. (eg. men stop raping women)
2) Mitigate the problem - even the finest minds can’t solve certain issues. But there are things that can be done to minimize it.
It takes a man AND a woman for sex (and by extension, rape) to occur. Not addressing both of them strikes me as improper because it arbitrarily groups the campus population into “attackers” and “victims.”
Now, flyer-ee has mentioned forthcoming follow-ups to this flyer campaign. Personally, I believe that addressing the woman’s side of the issue (things like situational awareness, or as Kevin pointed out, the gray area of hookup culture) as well as the man’s side brings the two into partnership to solve the problem, rather than mentally splitting the campus into two camps.
A house divided, etc.
@Daedalus
Just wanted to say props on your first UU article. You’ve sparked a very important discussion that’s actually remained civil and respectful. That’s tough to do.
I’ll keep my two cents in my pocket for now because I should be doing work right now, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone who’s treated this subject with the seriousness it deserves, but also remained patient and tolerant of others’ views as discussion progresses. It’s great to see,really.
@ Daedalus
I wasn’t referring to you when I posted. However, I would like to say that I’m surprised that this is your first article. Thats great sparking such debate like that right of the bat and the topic was good as well. Keep up the good work!
What really kills me about this whole thing is the University’s posting policy. By remaining anonymous, this group was able to blatantly violate many aspects of the university’s policy without fear of repercussions. But, it was very effective in getting the point across - look at the discussion we are having now as a result of this aggressive, viral campaign.
It bothers me that groups who want to get important messages across have to hide in order to do something meaningful - if these students were identifying themselves by name or as an organization they would probably be forced to remove all the fliers.
Currently UMBC’s policies lean toward the proactive, in that they aim to prevent things before they happen by outlawing a number of activities but rarely enforcing the rules. I think we could stand to have a more “reactionary” policy, where things like this are allowed, and abuses are dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
The only people the policy is serving to stifle are the students and groups who need to be associated with a name - why not give them the same rights as anonymous individuals and punish only if the privileges are explicitly being abused?
@ Mike
If you said that when you ran, I probably would of voted for you. Forward that idea Steve lol
@Andrew et al. Rape incidence is hard to pin down. What if it isn’t so high?
For your further consideration:
http://city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html
though everyone has a point somewhere in here, no one stop to think that all the flyers make the campus look trashy to walk through. Because they do.
@ anon 5/6 @ 5:18
Are you serious? I think that was the most unintelligent thing I have heard in a while.
What about the other fliers posted on boards and what not throughout the academic street? Chalk drawings that get smudged from people walking all over them… Free speech doesn’t need a template of a particular fashion, all it needs to be is a voice in what ever manner it choices to be represented in.
If you are worried about the campus appeal maybe you should get a group of people to go around and clean up the pond, pick up kicked over trashcans and clean up permanent graffiti that has been put on walls. I think that would make the campus a bit less “trashy” looking then a few fliers from students trying to make a statement.
@Why:
I’ve been asking questions like this throughout my time at UMBC and throughout my campaign…
@ Flyer-ee!
I like the way you think
@Flyer-ee!
This is the Anon 5/6 @ 5:18. You are definitely right that all those things need to be fixed. But contributing to the problem in a different way doesn’t negate the fact that you contribute to the problem in the first place. None of the things you mention should be the way they are, but now that you add papers on posts (and blowing in the wind on the ground when they get blown off those posts too) you don’t make it better, you make it worse. Your message is good. Your method blows (again, like the papers in the wind which I have seen).
@ anon 5/6 @5:18
Yes fliers blow off but they will blow off regardless of where they were posted on the campus. We used a lot of tape, I watched most of the fliers be taken down by hand by students and the ones that did blow down I also watched students pick up (because they were told to by their jobs or because they may have just felt like contributing to taking care of fallen flier trash.) But said issue is not isolated to our flyering incident, if we are adding to the problem then everyone else who flyers is too. But to get rid of flyering all together because flyers may fall off walls is ridiculous. And of all the trash, paper is pretty biodegradable.
I see where you are coming from but instead of arguing for a need to stop flyering you should organize a proactive student clean up crew because lets face it, no one is going to ever stop flyering on campus; its too useful a means of conversation.
This post is going to make me late for class. This discussion is also about to lose some of its civility. My apologies in advance.
The crap I keep reading (not just here, but in multiple media sources and locations) about how women are somehow victims by default and are never the problem is BS. The idea than men are always responsible and are always the aggressors is BS. Women, pay attention. If you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy. Men, pay attention. If you are in fact taking shamless advantage of a woman who has put herself- albeit foolishly- into that situation, then you are hereby invited to take a flying leap as well. Here’s another one for you; Women, you can in fact be the aggressor. If you are pushing him for more, constantly bringing up sex in coversation, even ‘just flirting’ when he’s made it clear that he doesn’t have any interest, that is Sexual Harrassament, which believe it or not falls under the same set of laws (much less severe, but same set) as rape. Think you’re great because you managed to ’seduce’ him? Guess what honey, if he wanted to have you charged with sexual assault, he could.
Women, you have no idea the power you have. Men, you have no idea how vulnerable you can be. Fliers and public awareness aside, that’s the crux of the problem, right there.
Btw- current estimates are that only about 1 in 7 sexual assaults are reported, and the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults occur in prisons. Food for thought.
To address Casey Miller’s point:
Blame and responsibility are different things. When we say a woman is partly responsible for a rape, it is because she took actions that contributed to the facilitation of that action. She is however without blame, because blame implies guilt. Being unintentionally causal does not mean that blame lies on the woman’s shoulders.
Most people who would commit rape do so because they are either in an impaired state of judgment or because they have psychological issues that prevent them from making socially acceptable decisions (i.e. significant prejudice against women, etc.) Because these are the kinds of people that these fliers were targeting, for reasons that have already been stated, there will be little real impact on that particular group of people.
On the other hand, education about rape should be targeted at women, not because of their ignorance, but because of the locus of control. A woman cannot elect to have a man just get off of her if he is intent on raping her. She can however become knowledgeable about ways to protect herself physically and socially. A woman has the right to do whatever she wants, but for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, even if not foreseen. Limiting reactions that could potentially end in rape is the key.
As for my personal stance on the issue, rape is one of the most despicable and barbarian crimes that can be committed. Instead of arguing over whether or not it happens this many times a year or that much amongst that group, we should all realize that it is on us as a society to train each other how to act. One of the most important things about sex education (particularly early sex ed) is teaching kids how to respect sexuality and the opposite sex. There is too much non-sex ed in this country and I believe personally that this is much of what causes a lack of gravity in regards to rape.
Ok I have to admit that I didn’t read all of the above comments in full. From what I gathered, no one seemed to perceive the fliers the way I did.
While I noticed that the fliers targeted “guys,” I thought the point was to get people talking, like this. The point was to provoke people, make them uncomfortable, make them think. Everyone can agree that rape is a problem (in general whether at UMBC or not). As someone who was involved in [let's call it] a sticky sexual situation that left me hurt, in all honesty, I hadn’t spoken a word about how I really felt to ANYONE until after the fliers were posted [in had been 5 months, by the way]. It might seem odd that I’m openly mentioning a bad sexual experience I was in on an open website with my real [and uncommon] first name. But, wasn’t that the point? To get people to talk and admit things and learn and understand? I personally loved the fliers. Yes, they were frank, and I felt uncomfortable stopping to read one, but rape is an important issue. I don’t identify myself as a rape victim yet every time someone uses the word rape in a casual context, I’m overcome with pain and emotion.
About the posting policy: these fliers made me appreciate the restrictive posting policy. If EVERYONE could post ANYTHING WHEREVER they wanted, would the rape fliers have made the same impact? Doubt it.
The rape fliers were nothing more than a shock tactic. I could’ve run around screaming in random people’s faces “RAPE” and it would have had the same effect.
@ Mariah
I’m sorry to hear you had a bad experience which you haven’t been able to address fully yet. I’m glad that this discussion has encouraged you to recognize a situation however sticky and ambiguous (as these things tend to be) as one that can be spoken about, and hopefully help you and others in the long run.
I think the word rape in discussions often conjures more of an idea of anger at some unidentified aggressor, rather than the confusion and avoidance I think end up being the more common reaction.
I think frequently the word rape isn’t a word that women associate with an experience until much later. Some things in life can be to hard to think about.
You may already know about this, but in case you and other readers don’t, UMBC has a program called Voices Against Violence, don’t let the name mislead you, it’s a legit department of University Health Services. The woman who runs it, Mary Vincitore is very warm and helpful and the program does some great things offering completely confidential services. Including just talking through whatever happened to see how you are feeling about whatever happened, even if it wasn’t rape exactly, even if it was just a sexual experience that is hurts to think about. Helping you in whatever ways you might be comfortable with, including offering you’re the opportunity to use on and off campus resources to help make your life easier. Including things you might not expect, like lets say there is someone you had a bad experience with and you need your class schedule changed late in the semester because you can’t bare to see someone, or because they know when and where your classes are and you don’t feel safe. She may be able to help with even things like that. Voices Against Violence is an amazing campus resource that I think may currently be under utilized. Please don’t be shy about dropping her a line. If nothing else you could help her understand what is really going on around campus, and understand how to better use the resources at her disposal to reach students the program can help.
Mary’s Contact information:
maryv@umbc.edu
x53754
http://www.umbc.edu/uhs/vav/index.html
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7341620618
When this follow up information zine/pamphlet/book or whatever is done how will students find out about it?
What will be in it? Is it going to be more balanced?
If the campus is as anti-information on this topic as it seems at times (note the absence of this post from the news headlines links on myUMBC.com) then where are you going to be able to distribute this stuff anyway?
When are you going to have it done?
Just curious!
@ PDubs
If you really think that then you are missing the whole point.
And I would like to see you try your “screaming tactic” and see what it gets you. They are not the same, yelling at people singles them out, is abrasive and rude. With the fliers you have a choice, you can chose to read them on your own terms or you can tune them out.
@kate
Well, you won’t have to wait much longer. (hopefully!)
oh! and @ Mariah
“While I noticed that the fliers targeted “guys,” I thought the point was to get people talking, like this.”
pretty much!
And although there have been posts about the fact that we aren’t addressing women’s responsibility in the matter as much is because in most other campaigns on the subject of rape prevention the women is normally the only person addressed in the equation. Hence our focus in the fliers.
I have been keeping an eye on these posts trying to decide if I wanted to put my 2 cents in. Well I guess now is the time.
As a victim of sexual assault as a young child, I just want to say….Ladies, please don’t dismiss your responsibilities in protecting yourself. Unfortunately, I was a child and had no means of protecting myself but today I am prepared. While I agree that this has brought up some great discussion, the sad truth is that it probably hasn’t changed anything. You cannot change others, you can only change yourself! That being said, the only thing you have control over is how well you protect yourself in the event something happens. The impact of all women being educated and prepared will have more stopping power then any law or flyer ever can.
My advice is to focus on teaching women how to protect themselves. Think about it, if we distributed posters like…….85% of women on campus have had self defense classes……..Guys might stop and notice.
I certainly would stop and notice…and laugh at such a ridiculous “fact”. 85% of women on campus have had self defense classes? I highly doubt it. I’d love to see how someone could pull up such a statistic.
Getting at the usefulness of statistics, how many of you know someone who has had a sexual encounter that was less than consentual but was never reported?
@Red/others
I just want to say that there is no need for you to address us “women” like you are talking to a middle schooler. I think we are all VERY aware of how rape works. And many of us are educated enough to know that women are not the only victims of rape and that men are not the only aggressors. Have some tact. Insulting people and talking down to them is going to get you nowhere. And it just makes you seem like the ignorant one in my opinion.
I think someone may of said this already but by legal definition, only men can rape. Thats a good reason why the flyer was directed towards Men. because only they can rape
Could some please post the flier on this site? I have no idea what you guys are talking about and context would be great!
@ 12:48 Anonymous
IANAL, but Maryland law doesn’t seem to read that way:
http://mlis.state.md.us/asp/web_statutes.asp?gcr&3-303
But even by the same “one side” argument, only a woman can be raped. I’d certainly think that educating the potential target of a crime about how to prevent and mitigate that risk is a very reasonable approach. Would you ask thieves not to rob your house, or would you install a security system and participate in the Neighborhood Watch?
note: I’m still of the opinion that BOTH approaches deserve attention. I’m just showing that arguing the matter from either side gives an incomplete picture of the problem, and thus an incomplete picture of the path to resolution.
I agree that both sides need to be presented but in this case, us ladies have had “how to protect yourself from getting raped” stuffed down our throats ever since middle school health class.. did the men get similar discussions?
Yes, it was called “don’t rape women”
@ bob,
I can’t speak for every other male out there, but yes, I’ve had it shoved down about not raping/how to help out/etc forever. And this comes from public schools, private independent school, catholic school, and then again when I got to UMBC.
Also, as a MALE VICTIM of sexual assault and rape, I have to say, while raising points and discussions, I personally found this to be going the wrong way to do this. This, to me, came off as making me feel guilty even though I have done nothing wrong, AND I graduated and only had to see them a few times when I came up to visit. There are ways to do things to bring about discussion without embroiling one’s self into debates and controversy about facts/figures/applicability/realism/etc.
@ Anonymous… yes. it does suck to feel one way just because you are part of a gender..such as being a women and not feeling safe walking down the street at night or at any other time… no i never had the feeling of feeling guilty that i am responsible for rape but i get the feeling of being the victim everytime i walk down the street…i cant walk down the streeet without getting honked and hollered at and i would be wearing normal street clothes..lthose kind of comments made to someone in broad daylight is a constant reminder that someone could be a lot more vulnerable just because of their gender
and im also glad that men in your case got lectured too but with all the people that i have talked too about this the case mostly lies in that women get the discussion, ignoring the men
@ bob
that’s why i never said that this isn’t an issue to be discussed. as a fairly androgynous person, i get the cat calls and such at varying times myself, so i understand your point to a degree. i do not claim to be the same, but i can empathize with it. also, just as in your experience guys not having this background, all young men i know have received these lessons. whether it is taken to heart is a varying issue, just like all other types of information. my point is that i felt this presented via fliers as more casting blame rather than providing viable solutions. it reinforces the binary of fault/victimization rather than developing a co-operative solution to these issues. it sparked some dialogue, but only among those who read them and bothered to come on here to talk about it. otherwise, most people i know still there who don’t come here, hadn’t heard about/seen/or cared less, both among men and women. more efficient dialogue could have been achieved i think by making a facebook/blog group with anon names attached that then met up to have a discussion in an informal fashion (if so concerned about the admin). however, having been foreced to sit through this type of information several times before at umbc mandated events (like welcome weeks, etc), the school is not as aaverse. perhaps now they feel it is covered earlier or for any number of reasons, but i has been done, and can be brought back like any number of programs. to me, this sparked more controversy and contempt between people than actual solutions and useful contact. this comes from someone who is now involved in a graduate program on gender performativity and studies at much more liberal and socially just campus just an hour down the road.
anonymous,
You say that the fliers made you feel guilty even though you have done nothing wrong.
Quite frankly, I think that if they offended you, or offended anyone else for that matter, that is the least of our concerns.
I will not sympathize with anyone that thinks the fliers were in bad taste or violated school posting policies. You are making up excuses as a way around discussing an important and yes, uncomfortable topic.
Rape happens. On this campus. And ALL men need to have the training to stop violence against women. Even if you don’t plan on “raping anytime soon,” it sets an example for your peers.
I am in full support of the fliers. Make sure you “flier-ees” call me up next time so I can help.
I support the fliers. It’s so annoying that people are all “myehh, this makes me uncomfortable”– it’s not supposed to make you comfortable! Please don’t tell women to get chastity belts. Tell men to stop raping! The “she was askin’ for it” mentality is despicable. And as for “this isn’t the right way to do this” — please suggest a better way then. If a discussion is held about this topic, no one will attend. If it is communicated through softer means, people will read and forget in a second. We would not have a thread of this length were it done through gentler means.
I’m pretty sure there have been discussions about this hosted on campus, with very low turn out. It seems like the internet is very well suited for allowing people to discuss sensitive topics like this in an open way.
@ treeveins and other UU organizer types
Why is this one of the most popular threads on UU but not on the list of headlines on myUMBC.com?
I have a hunch.
I’ve never had to go to the campus orientation stuff, was there any information presented or handed out then about sexual assult or rape?
Please don’t be shy, if you don’t remember any please post to say so!
A campus group is trying to do some research about this and it would be a big help to hear what you remember being at orientation in previous years. (we suspect there wasn’t anything at all)
when i was a freshman (fall ‘03), there was mandatory thing that every resident had to go to. they literally took floors/dorms in groups…the RAs went around and collected people from every room in their charge and we went specifically for this purpose. my gf’s freshman year (fall ‘05) they did it as well for her floor/dorm. both of us had the standard no means no, the consequences of hookup culture, how effed up those situations can be, etc. also, at least for me, they had some lil packets with fliers, pencils with free help numbers, and some other “goodies”. it was targeted at common sense things for both, like not letting ppl make drinks for you, some measures of self defense, and of course, that when someone/anyone says stop/no more/no to stop or you end up in heinous trouble. they also did all of this as a play/skit type thing.
@Melissa
I’m VERY offended by the flyers, and without tooting my own horn, I daresay I DIDN’T use it as an ‘excuse’ from discussion.
In my opinion, the very [ubiquitous] lack of finesse with regard to the matter of rape is a big hindrance to bringing it into the open. Sure, it’s counter-productive to sugarcoat things, but it’s also necessary to employ a certain amount of subtlety when dealing with a human issue.
@ Daedalus
I value nuance and finesse, even though I’m not the most skilled at it, but I’m not sure it’s always advisable when dealing with rape and sexual assault. I agree there is a lot of nuance in human interaction which ideally should be explored carefully, and we’ve already experienced a little of the gradient of understanding on these issues. I see big problems though when it comes to treating violence, rape and sexual assault with finesse in the context of an awareness campaign. While a certain proportion of the target audience is already able to appreciate subtleties (appreciation does not always equal efficacy), on the other end of the continuum another subset of the audience may not be able to understand messages put to them in any but the clearest of terms.
I think these fliers were a very successful way of drawing out a discussion containing useful content, and hopefully their future publication will allow Flier-ee a way to communicate with more sophistication. It is important to remember that much of the target audience for such publications are young and completely naïve, they may need a set of basic information to get their attention and inform them about the basics before moving on.
Don’t forget that in addressing issues with sophistication one must apply the same sophistication in understanding of all the variables.
A slight digression but for the record I think there are probably a lot of people who find the following concepts alluded to, requested or expected at various points in this discussion as pretty disturbing.
Finesse Rape
Subtle Violence
Rape Inoffensive
There are things in this world that are offensive, and it doesn’t do a favor to pretend otherwise.
I’m with Melissa. I’d LOVE to be included. I think it’s really important that rape and assault are defined to EVERYONE, guys and girls alike. I’d love to be part of the action.
At orientation/welcome week things we were told “no means no” kind of things, but I’m nearly sure we didn’t actually receive anything.
@kate The reason that this isn’t on myUMBC is because when the article was posted (on May 5th) and appeared in myUMBC, nobody “pawed” the article. Then, on the 6th, The Retriever Weekly posted all of their stories pushing this story off the first page of headlines…. and hardly anybody looks beyond the first page.
I’m sad that you would think that myUMBC would try to censor the voice of students.
I just looked at all 4 pages of headlines on myUMBC and did not see this thread posted. Does anyone know how to get it into the headlines? I will definitely “paw” it if I see it there.
I haven’t posted here in awhile and don’t know if I have any real credibility on an anonymous site but I can assure you the people at myUMBC, Collier included, are good people and work hard to make sure the voice of students are heard
anon1984, I do not work for myUMBC but I do know that there is a time issue with the headlines. It would seem that the order of stories are listed as (most pawed - degradation over time) and with the “retriever weekly bomb” as I call it dropping the day after the story it has probably been bumped off the list. I know from experience that if you are not highly pawed, pretty much anything else goes bye bye when the retriever releases its posts.
@Mike and Collier
Thank you for the information. I do NOT think that myUMBC tries to censor the voice of students, and I apologize if I implied that in my earlier posted comment. Do you know if it’s possible to get a story back into the headlines after it has been pushed off?
@anon1984 Stories only get one shot at the Headlines in order to be fair to all of the groups that contribute.
Now.. if another of the blogs that feed Headlines (like Zwyback or Co-create) were to pick up this story, then it would show up again. *wink wink*
I did a little digging and from what I understand, this whole “RAPE” thing is for a GWST class “Studies in Feminist Activism”
that explains the focus that some people think is “Anti-Male”
anyway, I’ve got to applaud the group thats doing this for their project and the professor who’s facilitating activities like this through projects! haha its pretty kickass
@ Sondheim Smoking
I’ve never taken any GWST classes, so I’m not very familiar with the angle they take on things, but i’m pretty confused about what you just wrote.
What on earth does feminism have to do with being anti-male?
If this was really for a Gender and Women’s Study class, then my already preconceived opinions and ideas of these classes have been confirmed. I always imagined these classes archaic, and male-bashing. I had the misfortune of taking a sociology class for one of my gfr’s that was cross listed with a GWST’s class and I have never seen so much male-bashing in a single class.
Many of the guys I know that had been forced to take a GWST class for one reason or another (scheduling or needing one last GFR, etc) have found the classes very anti-male as well.
If this is really what feminism is all about, it is no wonder that the public stays away from the word.
Also for all the posters claiming that people need to stop bitching about these flyers making them uncomfortable, did you ever stop and realize that these flyers probably do more damage than good.
By only blaming men, you are reinforcing the societal standards that men are in control and women are the weak, lower gender. Theres a big difference in making people uncomfortable which is fine for an issue like this and reinforcing ancient societal norms.
Also for whoever above said that by law only men can commit rape, you are an idiot. Sorry for name calling but if you truly believe that then you need to go read some law articles about rape or go talk to someone who actually understands the issue.
okay so people in a gwst class rant about unfairness in gender and they’re male haters…would you be saying the same thing if a bunch of people were complaining about the inequalities experienced because of their race, or would you just write them off as a bunch of white haters instead of having legitimate complaints?
and its not male hating, its patriarchy hating…theres a big difference
o and if you look in the dictionary under feminism…it’s not classified as male hating, it believing that women are equal to men
o and for you people who think gwst are just hairy legged lesbians that hate males… its not
@bob
Well based on my experience in a GWST class I don’t think a single class went by without some sort of stereotype of males being announced or men being blamed for type casting women into taking lower paying jobs and thus causing the wage gap.
I didn’t think feminism was about male hating, and I hope its not, but that’s all it was from my experience and the experiences shared with some of my guy friends here at UMBC.
@normal umbc student
i know its not men as a sex but rather its the society that views men as superier
im sorry that u got bad feelings about ur cross listed class… btw; the gender wage gap exists because of many different factors..its not jsut men type casting women
@ Kate
Many people who don’t understand feminism, feel that its anti-male. The flyers were for a project in a GWST, so it makes sense that people would think the flyers were anti-male as well, because they implored Men to take responsibility for the actions of their friends aka implying that only men can rape, which some men feel threatened by. Since many GWST things seem Anti-male to some, and the flyer has GWST influences, then it makes sense
Personally, I would consider myself as a feminist (of sorts) or an ally to feminists
@ normal UMBC student
the class project was to create a project about feminist activism. I helped with my friends about awareness on trans gendered issues. The other project I saw was about pregnant woman and their struggles day to day
So the views expressed in the project are not representative of the class as a whole
But i think some of your points are valid. Additionally, I’ve heard the GWST classes don’t properly showcase ways as to which Men are less privileged or are discriminated against.
people need to remember, there are 2 sides to every story
just a thought, but how much of this is coming from a 2nd wave versus 3rd feminist confrontational understanding fo these issues and what the populace understands of feminism (mostly loud stuff from early second wave)? esp the whole, anti male/male bashing vs activism. and how much of the project was conceived using concepts from both creating activism for change a la 3rd wave but relying on some older notions of power dynamics from second wave (as discussed here and how interpreted from the signs)?
Ok, I am way late in reading this artical because of a computer problem, but here is my two cents.
These posters kinda make me upset. They make guys out to be the soul reason for women getting rapes. I have been a black belt in Karate for 11 years now; for the past nine years of my life I have helped teach a womans self defense class for all women during the summer time. We teach the women how to defend themselves and how to use their surrounding environment to their advantage. We also tell the women that nine times out of ten, they are the first step in causing rape. Women have to be careful not to get drunk at bars or parties because this drunk and wild behavior are what rapists look for in a victim.
I don’t like that these posters are saying men= rapists. Women need to be careful when they go out, end of story.
@ Nick
It sounds like your experience with Karate may have given you a kind of one sided reference point on this issue. The world is more complicated than “Women need to be careful when they go out”. There are a lot of people, men and women who don’t know how to correctly identify consent. Being drunk and flirty is different than agreeing to have sex with someone, but not everyone knows how to tell the difference.
I know my viewpoint on this can ruffle a few feathers but I don’t believe that every person who commits rape is a terrible person. I’m sure there are plenty of cases where people just don’t understand their behavior may qualify as rape, and if they did they wouldn’t behave the same way, and would be very upset when reflecting on their lives. For example someone with specific social skills deficits for example may not even understand how to tell if a girl likes them, let alone understand the more complicated issues surrounding sex.
There are also a lot of people who mistake trust for romantic interest, they may be spending a lot of time with someone who is a friend, they may share every other part of their lives. There are people who have non-consensual sex with their spouses. There are people who have friendships and very one-sided sexual tension for years but don’t recognize it as one-sided, and have it play out very poorly. I don’t give these examples to hurt any feelings, ust to illustrate that effective and useful education about rape is not just about knowing how to kick someone in the shin and run.
@ Nick
I forgot to say that I’m happy to hear you are working to help women protect themselves. I think it’s great that you are teaching self defense classes. Are you doing it again this summer? If there are students who are interested in a class like that how do they find out more information?
@ Nick
If women need to be careful when they go out, are you saying that whenever I go to a party I have to be looking over my shoulder 24/7? Campus rape here doesnt exactly happen in the streets or on the loop late at night. It happens inside of the dorms and apartments. Its not really about self-defense, its more about how the rapist seems to mis judge wether or not the victim wants sex. And I say mis judge lightly. Alot of the time they have previous intentions that they follow through with when everyone has had a few drinks. And alot of the times thery are just too drunk to understand what no means. I dont want to be sexist, but a rapist is always a man. And men think with their penises, which seem to over rule the brain. I have had great male friends that all of the sudden turn into a sex monster after a night of just hanging out. Ive only been at umbc for 2 years and I have had SEVERAL close calls and they were all with FRIENDS. I dont think that 9 times out of 10 rape is a womans fault. What a sexist thing to say. .That is definently exaggerated.
@ Lauren,
I would be very very careful with the statement that only men are rapists. maybe according to some (not all legal) definitions, which limits rape to penile-vaginal intercourse, but women can be larger, more aggressive, and rape men. it is rarer, but it has happened.
I’m female and agree that women do need to watch out when they go out. I’ve had plenty of drunk girl friends who could easily have been picked up by random men if they happened to be alone. Not to mention if the girl dresses like a slut, she’s basically asking for it.
@ Anonymous (8:42pm)
So if I walk around wearing a miniskirt and a tube top, I’m asking to get physically assaulted and traumatized? I’m supposed to be covered from neck to wrist to ankle even when it’s 90 degrees outside? Guys are allowed to wear whatever they want, and they’re not criticized or told to cover up!
Also, the vast majority of rape occurs between friends and acquaintances, so your drunk girlfriends have more of a chance of getting raped by you than by some random person on the street.
People like you are the reason why so many rape victims are ashamed, confused, and silent. That you are making the rape victims feel responsible for the horrendous crime that was committed against them makes you an accomplice to their rape.
@ Teeth
fuckin A, you tell em
@ anon (8:42)
Was that an attempt at humor? If so you kind of missed the mark, and if not you are exactly the kind of person an education campaign needs to reach.
When you say any given factors or circumstance mean someone is “asking for it” you are giving permission for men to attack women they deem slutty, or sexually attractive or, well, anyone really. When people who have unstable mental conditions hear people like you say women are responsible, some of them are going to believe you.
Boys who grow up thinking that women make rape happen, well how much can that warp their idea of personal accountability for their behavior? Will it make some of them think they have a free pass, a right or obligation to attack women who dress in ways they personally consider “slutty”? I think that this can still be influential to college age boys and girls. Especially those people who are still forming their thoughts on the subject or are from more sheltered environments and have never been exposed to talking about things like rape openly and intelligently.
Different people have different ideas of what slutty is, different cultural contexts may lead people to consider you slutty looking when you don’t even realize it. So better cover up those ankles and your hair…so you don’t tempt men to rape you. Would you then recommend as a “rape prevention law” women must cover themselves completely at all times to make sure it is clear they are not asking to be attacked and if they don’t men should rape and/or stone them to death without any penalty? Maybe women should never be alone outside of their homes either? I’m pretty sure that sort of strategy hasn’t worked to improve the equality or safety of lives of women elsewhere.
It sounds like you are saying that men are lesser and unable to control their own behavior, so they shouldn’t be held responsible if they were “provoked” by a woman.
I think it would be good for you to spend some time giving this a little more serious thought. Rape happens a lot, and not just to people who are drunk or “look slutty”. I got the impression you think you will never be raped because of how you dress and limit your activities. This kind of “it will never happen to me” thinking is very typical of teenagers, and a little time and maturity may change your mind dramatically, so please take a more thoughtful look at this issue.
I’d just like to say that the whole “asking for it” mentality is completely ridiculous, So, when someone comes into my room and I’m not wearing a bra, am I considered to be “asking for it”? I’ve gotten that response before. I mean, my breasts exist and move when I do and have nipples but they’re MINE. If it’s late at night and I’m wearing Sofee’s or other short shorts to sleep in, am I asking for it because there’s just so much bare leg and so little fabric?
The “asking for it” mentality makes rape less of a crime. If a women is asking to be raped that makes it consensual if you think about what the phrase actually means. If a man can says a girl was asking for it, he can seem like less of a predator. (I realize men aren’t the only rapists and women aren’t the only victims. I’m speaking generally.) I personally feel that the “asking for it” mentality is sexist and dehumanizing against both men and women. Are men really such animals that they cannot resist fucking (I’m sorry, raping, having sex with, etc. just don’t seem to fit) a girl who exposes a little flesh? I didn’t think so. And are women really so stupid to continually “dress like sluts” if that means they’re “asking for it” or so subhuman that when they push away a sexual offender, it’s not that important for the person to stop?
I have to agree with Teeth. The “asking for it” mentality silences rape victims. I wish that people would really think before they speak and ask themselves if what they’re saying is what they truly mean. I’m not saying to tip-toe around things as not to offend people; I’m saying say what you mean and mean what you say.
@Anonymous 8:42
Think about that statement a little harder. Think about what rape really is. NO ONE (I say with as much stress possible) is “asking for it!” Also, please think about what you’re saying when you say “a girl dresses like a slut.” I wasn’t aware that ALL sluts dressed exactly the same. Also, describing the way a person dresses in an opinion, it’s subjective. What you consider slutty, I might not. Would you have said your friend was “asking for it” if she was raped after dressing like a slut in the eyes of a sexual predator? I hope this response isn’t perceived as an attack. I also hope that you realize how offensive and closed-minded your statement came off.
@ kate
right on! …your post totally wasn’t there when the page first loaded… thank god i’m not the only one who feels that way!
I guess I would like to understand more about why people like anon(8:42), Nick and i’m sure there are many others who agree with the general idea that some people are responsible for the actions of others.
In particular is some of this about trying to get a rise out of people for entertainment? When you stop to think about it do you you really think a woman who wears a particular style of dress is encouraging men to rape her? Maybe kill her, give her aids, or get her pregant with a rapists baby?
Why do you think a woman would “ask for” that?
I’m willing to entertain the idea that you may have idea’s I haven’t considered fully, so please do share something that will give more insight into the reasoning behind “asking for it”. I dont want to be rude, I know I don’t understand your position fully. I want to better understand where your ideas come from.
One thing I’m especially confused about is how the idea that the women who are the “sluttiest” or drunkest or most alone at night etc… are the ones who are “asking for it” (implying they are the ones who are and deserve to be attacked) doesn’t have anchored reference points.
So if all women suddenly dressed much more conservatively, and drank much less there will still be women who are the anything-ist because it is all relative.
If that is your standpoint, what in your opinion can or should be done?
The following paragraph may sound completely random, but bear with me.
Reading this latest discussion reminds me of a question I saw on an old game show called “Card Sharks” in which 100 men in a nudist colony were asked if when they saw a woman in said colony, did they look at her face first? I don’t remember the exact number, but it there was an overwhelming majority in favor of looking at the face first.
Wearing a particular outfit is not necessarily going to increase ones odds of getting raped. It may prove alluring in a certain sense sure, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not going to make much of a difference.
Unfortunately men are biologically triggered to seek out and have sex. It’s part of the natural human nature to want to go out and reproduce and blah blah blah. Unfortunately the hormones that trigger these desires sometimes get the better of us and cause us to do silly, dangerous, or regretful things. Do women have these desires? Yes, though oftentimes it is not nearly as strong as in men.
I hate to say it, being a guy, but this problem largely begins and ends with guys. Sure there are a few simple steps women should consider to help protect themselves, but unfortunately human nature has saddled guys with this burden of having to be careful and maintain a sense of self-control. The men who are committing rape or those in danger of it need to stop themselves from getting overwhelmed by desire.
Unfortunately women can unintentionally drive this desire by doing things like drinking, wearing skimpy outfits, and walking alone. As far as I’m concerned they have every right to do that if they want. Men need to control themselves, it’s pretty much as simple as that. Well, maybe not, but it would go a long way methinks.
people in nudist colonies are already bonkers hence lookin at the face first thus your point is WRONG
@Sonic
Interesting point. I’ve seen that stat too. (I don’t remember it either.) I think, though, it’s important to realize that people in nudists colonies (in general) aren’t thinking of the body as something purely sexual.
I like the bit about self control.
Also, women do have strong desires and sometimes they get the better of us too. A woman’s reputation as a tease can easily be started if she starts to do something she’ll regret and pulls away before satisfying either person’s desires/impulses. I also think rapists and sexual offenders aren’t doing what they do so much because of sex and desire but more because of power and control.
Rape and sex are not all that similar. In the majority of cases, penal-vaginal intercourse is the physical contact. However, sex is about respect, pleasure, BOTH people, and happens in a healthy relationship. Rape is about the rapist having control. S/he dominates the other person and completely disregards their comfort, pleasure, well-being, happiness, etc. Distinguishing between the two is vitally important to fixing the problem.
Regarding the study about what nudists look at, as I understand nudists have a philosophy that falls outside of the generally more common cultural norms. This doesn’t invalidate it, it just makes clear they are more used to seeing naked women than the average person. It sounds like the study asked them what the would do, which is a lot like what should you do rather than testing what people actually do.
The same thing comes up in other research too, if you ask someone what they would do they often give the answer of what they think they should do or would ideally do even without realizing it sometimes. Knowing what they actually do requires a degree of insight that is not always possible, without doing an experiment and tracking their eye movements i’m not sure this study measures what it seems to think it does.
@ sonic
Thanks for adding something about biology here, it can be kind of controversial but there are all sorts of hormones and physiological reactions that happen in people which effect behavior.
I think there is an issue here about self control, and I think appropriate behavior can be taught in the vast vast majority of cases. Maybe not 100% of humans are capable of learning to control their own impulses, say for example if there was significant frontal lobe trauma.
I think it matters where and how we learn our behavior. What our peers, family, media, and government etc.. accept, either overtly or covertly. We get a lot of mixed messages about sexual behavior, and violence. As well as what happens when you mix them.
What kind of messages do we as a community want to send? What do we teach our friends that we find acceptable?
I think people who say, “she was asking for it” teach people around them that there it is socially acceptable to blame women, belittle men and intimidate victims.
I don’t want that to be the atmosphere where I live, work, have friends, and sometimes even go to parties or walk to my car. I like to think we have an opportunity to raise the bar.
You can agree with the idea that “men shouldn’t rape women” all you want - I think the overwhelming majority will.
However, men are still out there raping and there are going to be some men who never practice self control no matter what you say.
That’s why it’s a two sided issue - both people need to take responsibility for their actions. Smart men should understand that “no means no” and take care to ensure that all sexual contact between them and a woman is consensual.
Women also need to take steps to protect themselves by doing things like practicing self-defense and bringing a friend along to things.
Men can’t say, “women are asking for it” and use that as an excuse to rape. But on the other hand, women can’t say, “men shouldn’t rape” and then not take steps to protect themselves.
I think one part about being a man means sticking up for women and doing your best to stop sexual abuse, assault, or anything like that. idk, call me old fashioned but I think thats a man’s duty. It comes with the territory. Its what we need to do
Its not that I don’t think Woman need to protect themselves but I think its equally, if not more important, that men stick up for women
I’m also a guy who understands the importance of one night stands. We’re in college so its all good, just wear a condom and make sure you both are cool with it.
Like some others, I have not read every single comment since I did not follow them from the beginning. I do, however, want to add a couple of my own viewpoints, which are similar to some of the others posted above.
I found the posters to be obnoxious. I don’t really see the difference in yelling “RAPE” to someone and posting a flyer saying “RAPE” except that with the yelling we might feel inclined to look for the perpetrator. Yes, it caught our attention, but was it really the best way to do it? And doing it anonymously was even worse. I respect people’s right to free speech and all that jazz, but I believe in doing it in a civilized fashion, which the posters were not.
I also don’t agree with you (more or less @flyer-ee) singling out men as the aggressors. Yes, most rape is committed by a guy to a girl, but singling it out is almost like demeaning other forms of rape and saying they’re not as important.
For the purposes of being fair, the victim sometimes does have responsibility for being raped–which is different than saying they deserved it or should be blamed. If you’re going to walk around in practically nothing and get completely plastered, then you made a mistake. Yes, the aggressor is also responsible–they should have morals enough to not violate someone in that fashion–but you did not help yourself by acting the way you did.
I think that knowing ways to protect yourself is very useful, even if they aren’t always 100 percent effective.
That’s it for now.
Oh, and @ Anonymous May 12th, 11:40—
Just because you’re not a nudist doesn’t mean nudist are bonkers. They just view the body differently–not as a sex machine, but as what it is–a body.
And, no, I’m not a nudist.
@ Lauren.
I find it ironic that you say you’re not trying to be sexist or anything, then completely categorize rapists as males. Have you never heard of child molestation by nannies (which aren’t always female, but primarily are)?
Also your comment: “I dont think that 9 times out of 10 rape is a womans fault. What a sexist thing to say. .That is definently exaggerated.” So it isn’t sexist or exaggerated to say all rapist are men? In fact, I find that a good portion of your post is exaggerated.
@anon 8:42. People never ask for rape. If they did, it wouldn’t be rape, now would it?
Ok um dani i’m pretty sure that those flyers weren’t about nannies raping little girls… I don’t know where you got that from but i’m pretty sure the pre school at umbc is pretty safe.. talk about exaggeration
@ Lauren
You seem to miss the point that Dani was raising, which is that woman can and are and have been found guilty of sexual assault, rape and abuse. Dani was just providing one example of nannies have sex with children (never explicitly girls, as boys have been assaulted to by female nannies and teachers). Even if you do not want to follow that train of thought and believe the fliers targeted only the students at umbc, not possibly any other employees, faculty, staff or visitors (which is funny, because i thought sexual assault and rape were universal problems, so everyone needs to work on this), there have been rapes of males on this campus, both by males and females. Women can rape and have done so, it is underreported even moreso than traditional female rape because of the stigma that a man can fall victim to a woman in anything, and due to your biased comments that all men thinks with their penises more than anything. Men can be drugged, sexually assaulted and attacked by women who can have as little regard as male rapists. While it may not happen often, or as often reported as female rape, it does happen, has happened on this campus, and learn that women can be perpetrators too.
@ anon, 3:45
Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make.
@Lauren
It was another example of rape. You say rapists are always men, I’m pointing out that there are obviously cases where they are not. It was not exaggeration, it was fact.
Oh, and I never said anything about UMBC’s preschool. Not sure where you got that from
As a recent (within the last 2 hours of this) victim of a recent rape i though id post my feelings to help everyone understand. I just left a TKE party after someone didnt understand that no means no. Yes, I looked cute and had a few drinks. But he didnt understand that NO MEANT NO and i was touched in an area that was unwelcome. AFTER I SAID NO. You can say that everyone can be raped, but I agree with Lauren that only men are true rapists. You can try and plus your argument that men and only can be rapists but really in reality at UMBC men are rapists. Men, if you were raped by a women Im sorry but 99.99999% of rapes ARE WOMEN. Stop trying to scrounge for info that states women can be rape because the reality that women are raping men arent the point of the flyers. Men are taking it too far and forcing and pressuring women that clearly aren’t interested in them to hooking up. Its obviously that these posts are regarding men raping women so just shut up about it. I feel disgusted right now that anyone on this message board would think that the treatment that I have just undergone was deserved.
I also agree. As a self proclaimed gentlemen, I dont see how a man could be raped, unless by another man. After reading this board, I feel that I dont feel the same as what other men have posted, justifying women as a reason for rape. Men, own up, for our gender is the root of rape. Learn self control.
Rape is something that will never be completely stamped out–just like terrorism, burglary, theft, etc. So long as there are humans, those who are either unstable or have improper moral balance (or poor self-control) will be committing these acts. It’s sad, but it’s true.
Now, I’m not saying we should ignore cracking down on rapists, nor am I saying that we should not educate men on how NOT to be a rapist . What I AM saying though, much as I think Daedalus was trying to convey, is that it wo